Electric Cooling Fans.

After various posts on Facebook, resulting from problems encountered on the jourmey home from IAD this year, I commented that my TA14 Carbodies Drophead has run without a mechanical fan since 1980. It only has a large (12") Kenlowe electric fan (in front of the radiator). The reason behind this is that I stopped using the TA14 as the everyday car in 1972 and used a 1961 TD21 (car 26449). This had no mechanical fan but an early electric one (fitted from new) using a long cylindrical black motor with 10" fan. This was satisfactory for all the years I owned the car. The only other item I fitted in 1976 (long very hot summer) was a 3 pint expansion tank.  When I refurbished the TA14 in 1979/80, I took the mechanical fan off and fitted a 12" Kenlowe. By this time the motors were of the flat type, and much more powerful. As an aside, you must put locking nuts back on the water pump studs when you remove the mechanical fan blades! The Kenlowe fan was switched on manually and very rarely used. The secret if you are say, climbing over the Alps, is to switch the fan on as you start the climb. We have never experienced any water overheating problems since. This particular fan survived until 1995, but fell apart after our trip to Southern Ireland that year. The roads were so so rough that many of our little group of Alvis cars suffered problems. The replacement Kenlowe fan is still providing excellent service and was a fantastic boon on our trip to Southern Spain in 2009, where air temperatures regularly exceeded 40C.  Other points of interest are that the dynamo can cope with the Kenlowe fan, but there isn't much margin and high charge will be seen if the fan is used when the car is in heavy slow moving or stationary traffic. However, I have never had any problem with a flat battery. The next most important point is that the fan blades must be fitted as close as possible to the radiator to achieve maximum cooling efficiency. The modification isn't original I know, but does allow the cars to be used just like a modern one. I have also noted that with such a powerful electric fan, the dreaded problem of fuel vaporisation is minimised and I have never had to resort to opening the bonnet vents. The car has done almost 75,000 miles since 1980 with just a Kenlow fan. I await comments!  David Jobson-Scott. Posted by DavidMJS 03/07/2013 17:19:47

My TC108/G runs on the same set-up.  No mechanical fan, but uses a Kenlowe in front of the rad.  Running home from Shelsley Walsh this weekend (ambient temp 30 deg's) the car ran at 75 deg's on slower roads, about 70 deg's on the motorway. and the fan cut in (as you would expect) when stationary.  However I did experience some problems with vapourisation when in slower traffic, for the first time ever, which I am putting down to 'modern' fuel.  The fuel pipe under the bonnet is still in the original position high up at the front of the engine, so I am hoping a mod to route it along the chassis rails and in front of the radiator will solve this.  I don't bother with Facebook. What were the problems people were experiencing? Posted by Angus D'Arcy-Drake 08/07/2013 13:50:53

Hello Angus. The problems seem to have been caused by being stuck in very heavy traffic. Most cars run hotter in these conditions, but I suspect that the underlying problem is caused by the extremely volatile modern fuel. Modern cars with fuel injection don't suffer in this way because the fuel is recycled and under high pressure. Our car withs carbs aren't suited to modern petrol. On my TE21, I have re-routed the fuel pipe behind the engine and up under the carbs. This makes a huge difference (although Iain Galloway has done the same mod and still suffers problems). First priority, therefore, seems to be sort out the cooling system: then tackle the fuel vaporisation problems. The 3 litre fuel pipe which splits just above the centre of the exhaust manifold is lunacy (although I never had problems with my TD21 with the old leaded fuel). Posted by DavidMJS 08/07/2013 15:23:42

Hi David. Given that my car doesn't have any cooling issues but is starting to suffer vapourisation, I am not convinced that resolving any cooling issues a car may have will do much to sort vapourisation.  Under-bonnet temperatures are pretty high whatever the temperature of the water, and modern fuel doesn't appear to cope with it very well. Perhaps Iain could try routing the fuel line across the front of the car along the chassis rails (low down and mostly outside the engine bay), because the back of the engine is still a pretty warm place! Given that this issue is 'suddenly' becoming more commonplace, clearly most 3 litre owners are going to have to do something. Posted by Angus D'Arcy-Drake 10/07/2013 08:37:05

I struggled with the fuel vaporastion issue when doing 300 miles in c5hours coming back from Cornwall (19th July...hottest day in x years) in my (unleaded conversion) 66te21dhc (made the journey down no problem). I have since fitted a kenlowe and this is testing fine, but i cant help thinking it might be more reliable to just go for fuel injection instead of carbs...has anyone tried this yet?I know i am diluting the originality of the car, but i want to maximise my chances of trouble free motoring on long hot tours.Any suggestions gratefully received.Thanks Posted by bericoteboy 20/08/2013 14:51:22

Hi,  you chaps,  I have just seen the last three posts on this subject,  and it occurred to me that there could be a problem in diagnosing the symptoms that some of you are experiencing.      I had the same infuriating circumstances of engine die and refusal to start when hot on different occasions,  with my TA14 special;     the problem was eventually tracked down to coil breakdown when hot,  then, after a cool off period,  all would be right again.            So, It is just a thought to check your coil,  because we usually assume that they will go on for ever,  and never give trouble.  Best of luck  in sorting the problem. Posted by alvicar1 20/08/2013 15:41:35

As a non mechanic I respectfully agree with David J-S. My Grey Lady3 used to overheat but never vaporised under the worst stationary provocation . No special measures , just  overuse of the Kenlowe every time I saw a holdup! Now that I do not need it for cooling I shall have to remember to carry on with that! Perhaps a road speed sensitive switch on the fan?  Vic Round Posted by Vic Round 17/11/2013 10:23:05

I recently had my car tuned on a rolling road (by somebody with 40 years experience) and found that the ignition was too advanced, which will cause the manifold to be very hot. This would of course contribute to fuel vapourisation issues, so before I re-route any fuel lines he recommended I try it once we get to the warmer weather next year. It will be interesting to see if there is a difference.  The car was tested right throught the rev range, up to 4,500rpm, which made me wince, but we established under what conditions the car ran too lean, too rich and when it was about right. After trying several different carb needles, a pair were manually adjusted on a pillar drill to suit the car.  The old crate now flys, and returns an additional 3 mpg.  The point I make is that rather than dealing with the symptoms, some of the problems we encounter with modern fuel could perhaps be reduced by making sure the car is properly set-up to cope with it. Static tuning in the garage is only going to get you so far. A rolling road can analyse the car's performance under road conditions. It has certainly transformed the performance of my TC108/G. Posted by Angus D'Arcy-Drake 18/11/2013 10:05:05

Having looked at Kenlowe's website, it appears they no longer supply to the retro-fit market. Does anyone have a recommendation of other electric fan suppliers? At this stage I'm not sure whether tje TE21 really has an overheating problem or if it's simply a dodgy temerature gaugue but, living in the Channel Islans, with a speed limit of 35 mph, it would seem a good idea to have additional cooling anyway.

Hi  Jamie,
I have fitted a 12" Revotec slimline fan in front of the radiator on my TA21. Tight fit but there may be more room on a TE21.
https://www.revotec.com/acatalog/Slimline-Electronic-Comex-Fans.htm
Peter Milne.