Waterless coolent

Has anybody experience with "Evens waterless coolent". It seams to be perfect for cleaned 3 litre engines. Who ever did the job, knows how much work it is and how much dirt builds up in the coolant system in some years.  It is offered by "revington tr". Not cheap, but maybe a good solution. Posted by Otto 05/03/2013 20:47:30

I have "Evans Waterless Coolant" in my 1936 Silver Eagle SG... It is fantastic and would recommend it to anyone. It works in several different ways. It is like a "Water wetter", it does not boil locally around the valve seats, so it keeps everything "Wet" and cooler. It does not freeze, just gets a bit more viscous at seriously sub-zero temperatures, so it cannot crack your block. It does not boil until something like 330 degrees F. I have never had any problems boiling, but one hot 95 degree day driving through Dearborn Michigan, with the stop and go traffic, the temperature rose to 230 degrees, with no detrimental effects, and as soon as I got moving again, the temperature came right down. It is expensive, but well worth the money! Posted by IanHardaker 05/03/2013 22:43:36

I have installed Evans coolant in some of my cars, and plan to convert them all. Ian has already mentioned all the reasons.   It works out cheaper in the long run because it is a lifetime coolant, so no need to change it as you would with regular coolants. But most importantly, it eliminates rust! This is especially important in classics that are not driven frequently.   Regards  KC Posted by KCS 06/03/2013 08:12:41

Can anyone tell me how you remove all the water in the existing system before filling with the waterless coolant. I estimate that several litres remain in mine after opening the radiator and engine drain cocks. Posted by Davenall 20/03/2013 16:35:45

[quote="Davenall":slusln7z]Can anyone tell me how you remove all the water in the existing system before filling with the waterless coolant. I estimate that several litres remain in mine after opening the radiator and engine drain cocks.[/quote:slusln7z]  Hi Dave  I have not yet converted my Alvis to Evans coolant, so I can only relate my experience to my old Bentley. On that car there is a water tap near the rear of the engine. After I thought that I had managed to remove all the water I opened that tap and another two litres ran out!  I also used compressed air to blow all the water out of the heater system.  Evans also sell a special flush which is very hygroscopic, called Prep Fluid. Once you are sure you have removed most of the water you fill the system with the flush and let the car idle until it has reached operating temperature. You then drain the flush and in theory it would have absorbed all the remaining water.  The flush can be re-used. You simply boil it for about ten minutes and all the water content will steam out. I flushed my Bentley’s engine twice before I installed the coolant.   A friend of mine used a wet/dry vacuum cleaner to suck the last remaining water out of his Austin Healey’s engine! It worked really well.   Your Evans supplier should be able to test the water content in the coolant after you have done the installation. You want 5% or lower. I achieved less that 1% in my Bentley, so I think the double-flush was worth the effort.   Kind regards  KC Posted by KCS 24/03/2013 07:11:25

The business I manage here on they Gold Coast in Australia sells the Evans Waterless Engine Coolant and Evans Prep Fluid. We're constantly amazed by who's buying it for what vehicles (and aeroplanes..!).  It's just been announced that it is available in larger quantities, usually 3.77 Ltr containers, now in 20 Ltr and I think even 100 Ltrs.  It goes without saying, we use it in our own cars (yes we still have to pay for it) and have not experienced one problem at all…    Preparation is the key, clean and 'dry' with a good radiator and heater matrix, good hoses and good hose clamps.  I recommend to our clients that they remove all hoses and replace if required, blow through the system with compressed air and replenish with the Evans.  Bleed as required.  It works…!  Mark. Posted by Mark T Boldry 04/12/2013 20:21:03

There is an alternative view regarding these lifetime coolants (Evans, 4life etc..) - they have a specific heat capacity which is lower than that of water / antifreeze / inhibitor. It is also lower than that of pure water.  The following extracts have been copied from another motor club forum:  "Water has a specific heat capacity of 1. Water with a 50% antifreeze solution has about 14% less heat capacity at 0.86 so to obtain the same cooling with antifreeze you have to pump more coolant. In other words since you have not increased the amount of coolant you must pump it more quickly. Evans waterless coolant has a specific heat capacity of .66 so you need to pump even more coolant to achieve the same degree of cooling. The most effective summer coolant is pure water with an added corrosion inhibitor (not ethylene glycol as in antifreeze)."  "An engine needs to run at an optimal temperature to get the best thermal efficiency i.e. get the most power from the incoming petrol. Internal combustion engines are extremely inefficient heat engines. Only some 20 - 25% of the incoming energy is converted to something useful that you can use. The rest is wasted as heat. If the engine is too cool thermal efficiency drops and power drops. If the engine is too hot then pre-detonation can occur. Even if one cylinder area is too hot pre-detonation can occur reducing power and forcing you to retard the ignition which will affect the power of the whole engine. An engine that is too hot will also shorten the life of internal parts. So it needs to be the right temperature.  Water is the best coolant for absorbing heat. But it boils at a lower temperature than other coolants and can form steam pockets more easily so from that point of view it is not the best coolant. A water/ethylene glycol mix boils at a higher temperature but to get the same cooling you have to have a higher flow rate. Propylene Glycol has the highest boiling point but it will have to flow at twice the rate of a water/ethylene glycol mix. Pressure in the engine block is higher than the pressure in the radiator. This is because the pump is building pressure due to the thermostat restriction. This will raise the boiling point of the water and reduce the chance of steam pockets. So running without a thermostat is not a good idea, it does not improve cooling. If the radiator cap holds 15psi of pressure that raises the boiling point of plain water to about 250f (121c). When you add the pump pressure the boiling point in the block is brought close to 300f (148c). So pressure is vitally important. The pressure also aids cooling when nucleate boiling takes place by helping to collapse the bubbles of steam into the body of the coolant thereby transferring even more heat from the metal to the coolant. The benefit of increasing the boiling point prevents steam pockets forming. Just as important is coolant flow rate. You cannot pump coolant too quickly. A good flow means that the coolant does not stay in one place too long, it moves off to be replaced by cooler coolant. Turbulence is also important so that the hotter coolant in contact with the metal moves into the body and is replaced by coolant that is not quite so hot. This applies in both the engine and in the radiator. You should not have a smooth flow of coolant through the radiator tubes, it needs to tumble over itself to impart the most amount of heat to the metal of the radiator. I was quite careful about stating the most effective SUMMER coolant was water with an added corrosion inhibitor. For anyone where freezing is a possibility then yes, a water/antifreeze mixture must be used. The difference between water and a 50% water/ethylene glycol mix is not so big. It increases the boiling point by 7c and has 86% of the heat capacity. A 25% solution increases the boiling point by 4c and has 95% of the capacity of pure water. There is probably enough redundancy in most pumping systems that the reduction in heat capacity of the coolant will not have a significant effect. Perhaps if you are running in very hot climate then you might need that extra capacity and so the answer there would be to run on pure water."  "To be pedantically precise, Evans does not reduce overheating. It reduces the effects/results of overheating i.e boiling in the coolant. It hasn't solved a problem. In fact  Evans causes an increase in engine temperatures which to me means more overheating. It's just that the coolant doesn't boil at the higher temperature so there is no visual effect to the overheating. It doesn't alter the fact that with it your engine will be running hotter than with traditional coolant (given all other factors are unchanged in a specific application). I don't think any of us want our engines running any hotter."  PS. I do not have any financial interest in water (!) or antifreeze.  In summary, I have decided to stick with the cheaper option of 25% strength water / antifreeze in my classic cars. Posted by DaveT 05/12/2013 12:36:27

The exhaust valve seats are very much hotter than the boiling point of water, and cause localized boiling. This is why the amount of coolant in the system appears to grow, and on modern systems has an expansion tank. The coolant does not expand significantly, but its volume does because of the steam around the exhaust valve seats. With Waterless coolant, it does not boil around the valve seats, so the coolant remains in contact and removes the heat. I noticed on my 1936 Silver Eagle that it does run cooler. I also got stuck in traffic in Dearborn Michigan on a 90 degree day. The temperature rose over the boiling point (About 225 degrees), but I did not lose any coolant. With any other coolant it would have been all over the floor. As soon as I got moving again, the temperature came right down. The Waterless coolant gives an "Insurance Policy" for modern traffic when it is allowed to go above boiling point.   Quote:     High Performance Coolant provides cooling protection through constant liquid coolant contact with engine metals. Eliminates water-causing corrosion, electrolysis and cavitation. I think corrosion in these engines is very high on the insides of the cast iron and aluminium castings... This eliminates it... no more core plug changes for me! My Silver Eagle also runs basically almost unpressurized,unlike 3 litre engines. In summary I am going to stick with Evans!!! Posted by IanHardaker 05/12/2013 16:42:48

Hello Ian,  thanks for reading my input and taking the time to reply. I did not expect to convert anyone away from a coolant solution that they are happy with, but I did want to explain why the decision to adopt waterless coolant (regarded by some as "snake oil") as the best coolant is not necessarily straightforward and should not be undertaken without weighing up the advantages and disadvantages. I hope we can politely agree to differ!  cheers  Dave Posted by DaveT 05/12/2013 21:55:08

Of course we can politely agree to differ! If there was only one thought and one answer, then there would be no choice in the world. Instead of Ford, Rover and Alvis, there would only be "Cars"... What a boring place it would be! We all have opinions based on our life experiences!  Ian Posted by IanHardaker 06/12/2013 10:02:33